Back on September 27, 2006, I was invited to appear on the Narrow Mind radio show with Pastor Gene Cook, Jr. On the day of the show, Dr. Robert Morey showed up and then essentially took over the show from Gene Cook, Jr., and Morey even changed the entire course of the show's intended subject from the deity of Jesus and the Trinity to God's foreknowledge of events. Even with all this, Morey ended up losing this debate badly on the subject of God's foreknowledge, even going so far as to challenge me to another debate in the future, one which Dr. Morey subsequently failed to show up for or even write in response to my several articles, articles which I prepared in anticipation of the debate and in direct response to Morey's request!
Of course, given what happened to Dr. Morey on the Narrow Mind on September 27, 2006, it is no surprise at all to me that Morey has disappeared for well over 5 years since his now, already-answered challenged was issued. Here is a sample of what took place even though Morey had every advantage during the debate, including showing up without hardly any notice being given to me prior to the show, and then changing the subject as the show began:
Morey: We know that we are to go to the New Testament for the final revelation of God. There, for example, we are told in terms that are explicitly clear in the Greek, in Ephesians 1:4. It’s pro kataboles kosmo, “Before the creation of the world.”
Stafford: No, it doesn’t say that.
Morey: God’s plan of redemption had already …
Stafford: It’s says, “before the throwing down…” You just misquoted the scripture.
Morey: “Before.” Pro kataboles kosmos.
Stafford: Kataboles [means (signal interruption)] the “laying down.”
Morey: And there the word, if you look in any lexicon…
Stafford: You said, “creation.” That is not accurate. Now let me respond to what you said.
Morey: Oh, really? You mean the lexicons are wrong? I have the lexicons in front of me.
Stafford: I’m telling you that you are wrong in saying that kataboles kosmos means the creation of the world inclusive of Adam and Eve.
The above was cited on page 479 of my Third Edition of Jehovah's Witnesses Defended. Consider also this part of my 2006 debate with Morey, where Morey attempted to turn Jesus' own words on their head in order to try and prop up his rather sickly view of God's knowledge:
Morey: Did God in fact know ahead of time, let’s say, that Judas would choose to betray Christ and does Scripture indicate that God’s foreknowledge was complete and he knew everything everybody would do concerning the crucifixion?
Stafford: He knew that it would happen but “woe to the one through whom it comes.”
Morey: So in other words …
Stafford: That’s Jesus’ words.
Morey: …even though Judas’ betrayal was fully understood from all eternity, so Luke 22:22 “it had been determined.”
Stafford: Well, I wouldn’t say that.
Morey: Well, Luke 22:22, “he went to betray Christ as it had been determined.” At the same time…
Stafford: But that doesn’t say “determined from all eternity.”
Morey: Well that…yes…yes it does. Because as you take a word study of that word and you go over to Acts 2 and Acts 4, you find that the crucifixion of Christ was foreordained from the foundation of the world.
Stafford: Well, that’s not “eternity,” that’s the “foundation of the world.”
For more on my debate with Dr. Morey, see Chapter 7 in my Third Edition of Jehovah's Witnesses Defended. See also the linked articles listed in the beginning part of my recent article, "Dr. James White and the Assumptions of Trinitarianism Revisited," Watching the Ministry (August 1, 2011).
Dr. Morey lost every single point raised during our 2006 debate, and most of his own followers have admitted to me as much in the years since that time. Most of those with whom I spoken also cannot understand or explain Dr. Morey's total disappearance and failure to live up to his own challenge going on 6 years after the fact.
In spite of Dr. Morey's rather embarrassing appearance on the Narrow Mind show on September 27, 2006, Dr. Morey and his followers love to promote him no matter how weak are his arguments and no matter how condescending is his demeanor. To hear both for yourself, and to hear once more how Dr. Morey's debate career truly ended (since he since then disappeared where it concerns his own challenge), listen to the debate which took place well over 5 years ago here.
While Dr. Morey may continue to debate others, his collapse during our 2006 debate and his subsequent failure to show up for his own issued challenge to debate me again, in writing or in person, show clearly that his debate career is effectively over. In fact, in the sense in which it matters most his debate career ended on September 27, 2006.
While Dr. Morey may continue to debate others, his collapse during our 2006 debate and his subsequent failure to show up for his own issued challenge to debate me again, in writing or in person, show clearly that his debate career is effectively over. In fact, in the sense in which it matters most his debate career ended on September 27, 2006.
Elihu Books is currently preparing a full, written transcript of my two debates in 2003 with Robert M. Bowman, Jr., and Dr. James White, as well as of my 2006 debate with Dr. Morey and Gene Cook, Jr., on the Narrow Mind. This volume has no release date, but it is in preparation with all three debates being carefully transcribed so people can see and read, in addition to hearing (all three) and seeing (Bowman/White), what took place when I debated each of these three well-known Trinitarian teachers. Until then, the audio for my debate with Morey can be heard using the above link, and the DVDs of my debates with Bowman and with Dr. White are still available through Elihu Books.
If you have not heard or seen any of them yet, I highly recommend you do so.
